A Linux machine! Because a 486 is a terrible thing to waste!
-- Joe Sloan, jjs@wintermute.ucr.eduAlas, I can clearly see that somebody screwed-up the punctuation. Surely that should read
A Linux machine! Because a 486 is a terrible thing. To waste!
A Linux machine! Because a 486 is a terrible thing to waste!
-- Joe Sloan, jjs@wintermute.ucr.eduAlas, I can clearly see that somebody screwed-up the punctuation. Surely that should read
A Linux machine! Because a 486 is a terrible thing. To waste!
"Why does SABC's website suck so badly when viewed in Firefox?BTW: if you leave off the "www." prefix, you get to see exaclty what software they're using to drive their (very b0rked) portal. Now I'm not suggesting that this might render them susceptible to getting the portal cracked, but anybody who has set up a portal server that incompetently has quite possibly left some default logins/passwords in place. Maybe?
"Not to mention that it is completely unusable with Javascript disabled, which renders it inaccessible to people using Braille readers or text-based browsers of any kind; this violates the constitutions provisions against discrimination."
We run an ISP with over 18,000 corporate customers and 180,000 SME's and
we have customers who utilise various services. These include list
servers where customers use their own databases and we don't have full
control. The DataPro and Vox databases are within our control and
consist of individuals and organisations who have provided their details
to us. The reason we have you on our Company database is because you are
obviously listed as a technical contact for some of our customers. We
cannot offer opt in opt out facilities for our communication to our base
because the news letters communicate important information that the
technical contacts need to be aware of. However if you want to be
excluded please give us the details and provide us with new technical
contact details.
The other choice is do what the rest of us do and add the user to your
junk mail list.
Interestingly enough this mail ended up in my junk mail folder which
basically means that I received unsolicited mail from this in the past
or you cc'd thousands of people.
Dear Mr Reed, On 18/02/2008, Douglas Reed <douglasr@datapro.co.za> wrote:
> The DataPro and Vox databases are within our control and
> consist of individuals and organisations who have provided their details
> to us. The reason we have you on our Company database is because you are
> obviously listed as a technical contact for some of our customers.
The (many) spam emails that form the basis of my complaint to ISPA are directly from Datapro and Vox Telecom; this is not about spam from your customers. One spam message bears your name as "signatory".
You will note from my earlier correspondence with Maggie Cubitt that I have tried repeatedly, using numerous channels, to "opt out" of these mailing lists, without any success.
Why don't your opt-out procedures work? (As required by the ECT Act.)
Although some of your technical staff are certainly in possession of my email address as "technical contact" for some of our mutual customers, this does NOT extend a license to your companies to send me unsolicited bulk email on ANY subject.
Further, I will note that I have never -- not even once -- receive a bulk message on any technical subject. The emails forming the basis of my complaint have ALL been of a nature that can only be characterised as "marketing crap". I did not, ever, at any stage, give any person or system representing your companies, permission to send me marketing crap. The fact the your companies have done so is known in the email management industry as "address repurposing" and is considered a sure sign of "spam spoor".
> The other choice is do what the rest of us do and add the user to your
> junk mail list. I will repeat what I wrote to Ms Cubbit:
<quote>
having my own email address removed from your mailing lists is of only limited interest to me in this matter. The larger issue, which it is my main purpose to tackle, is that of Datapro and Vox Telecom blithely spamming, over an extended period of time, continuing in the face of numerous good-faith attempts to unsubscribe, and in direct violation of
1) their own Terms of Service,
2) the email provisions of the ECT Act, and
3) the ISPA's Code of Conduct.
</quote>
The point this: "adding Datapro/Vox Telecom" to my "junk mail list," as you suggest, fails to eliminate or mitigate the primary complaint against spam: the receiver has to pay for it. Putting Datapro/Vox Telecom into my "junk mail list" does not mean that Datapro/Vox Telecom cease being spammers.
To (attempt to) be completely clear on this: since you seem to have overlooked the point:
* This is not about Datapro and Vox Telecom spamming ME.
* This IS about Datapro/Vox Telecom spamming AT ALL.
> Interestingly enough this mail ended up in my junk mail folder which
> basically means that I received unsolicited mail from this in the past
> or you cc'd thousands of people.
Nonsense.
No such conclusion can be inferred.
Having personally administered email and spam-filtering systems, I can tell you that you cannot draw any such conclusion; thogh it /may/ call into question the competence of the people managing your spam-filtering systems.
> We run an ISP with over 18,000 corporate customers and 180,000 SME's and
> we have customers who utilise various services. These include list
> servers where customers use their own databases and we don't have full
> control.
What I read into this is that you believe that your organisations are "too large for the rules to apply". I have some bad news... There are other organisations far, FAR larger that manage to adequately, and to the full satisfaction of the anti-spam community, police their customers' mailing lists and email activities. I am pretty sure that both Outblaze and AOL are larger than your operations; both manage to maintain an impeccable reputation for managing the spam problem and speedily terminating spammy customers.
Of course, neither one spams their customers directly, as your organisations have done.
Part of your (companies') responsibility to the Internet community is to police your customers and their mailing lists. Ways to do this include monitoring their behaviour, and maintaining and ENFORCING uncompromising Terms of Service. Your response suggest an unwillingness to do so. This is a slippery slope. Next your sales-staff will be writing "pink contracts". (Google for it!) Should you require access to better expertise than your organisations evidently possess, I shall be glad to forward my consulting rates.
All of this remains (largely) irrelevant. The numerous spam messages I have received are from your organisations; not from your customers. Your unwillingness to eliminate spam from /within/ is, perhaps, indicative of your willingness to tolerate/profit-from spammy customers from without.
Here is the response I expect: As I see it (prove me wrong?), you have two choices:
1. Throw away all mailing lists under your control, and start from scratch to build new mailing lists. Of course you WILL follow established Internet procedures for building permission-base email lists. (Somehow, I doubt this one...)
OR
2. Send a ONE TIME email to all addresses on your mailing lists, explaining (in full) the situation, expressing your companies' regret that such an unacceptable and untenable situation has come about through the action of a few misguided individuals, and asking the recipients to confirm that they WISH to be subscribed to the relevant mailing list. Should recipients so confirm their desire to participate, your staff should proceed in the full confidence that those persons have positively opted-IN. Any email address that fails to reply, or that expresses a desire to opt-OUT must be removed from your databases.
This (second) option should be followed-up with a comprehensive on-going (so that new-hi[r]es get the message, too) educational message from the organisation: "We don't tolerate spam in any shape, manner or form." (together with a detailed explanation of just what that means.) Your marketing and sales staff may require particularly persistent education.
Forgive my lack of optimism.
Since you (read: your organisations) do not know the email address(es) being spammed, you may be sure that I am in a position to monitor your organisations' actions on this, and will report accordingly.
PS: You, Mr Reed, might wish to consider that a small one-man consultancy such as myself, may frequently be in a position to make recommendations to customers concerning their choice of service providers in the Internet Services industry. Either to recommend providers, or, alternatively, to discourage use of any particular provider. Your call...
My response to them:Subject: RE: Response to ISPA complaint Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 12:55:45 +0200 From: "Maggie Cubitt" <maggiec@voxtelecom.co.za> To: "Mike Morris" <me> Hi Mike Apologies, as I can fully understand your frustration, which is why I am attempting to resolve it comprehensively and finally. I am unable to find the e-mail address mikro2nd@gmail.com on the Contacts database from the DataPro CRM.. and you have extracted the delivery address from your notepad doc. Can I please just confirm that the Newsletter was delivered to the e-mail address mikro2nd@gmail.com?
Forgive me my skepticism... ;-)Maggie Cubitt wrote: > Apologies, as I can fully understand your frustration, which is why I > am attempting to resolve it comprehensively and finally. Please understand that having my own email address removed from your mailing lists is of only limited interest to me in this matter. The larger issue, which it is my main purpose to tackle, is that of Datapro and Vox Telecom blithely spamming, over an extended period of time, continuing in the face of numerous good-faith attempts to unsubscribe, and in direct violation of 1) their own Terms of Service, 2) the email provisions of the ECT Act, and 3) the ISPA's Code of Conduct. > I am unable to find the e-mail address mikro2nd@gmail.com on the > Contacts database from the DataPro CRM.. and you have extracted the > delivery address from your notepad doc. Can I please just confirm that > the Newsletter was delivered to the e-mail address mikro2nd@gmail.com? The spam was not delivered to that email address, but another one. I am not willing to assist you in listwashing -- the much-loathed practise whereby spammers remove the addresses of the whiners, but continue to blast their unwanted spew out to the Silent Majority Who Just Hit Delete. I never opted-in to any mailing list belonging to Datapro or Vox Telecom, but was placed on it without my knowledge or consent via person(s) with whom I had contact for purely technical purposes on behalf of my own clients. This, in turn, means that my email address was repurposed for marketing spam. In turn Datapro's mailing list was repurposed by Vox Telecom, a company with which I have certainly never had any business relationship. (Yes, I do understand the relationship between the companies. No explanation needed.) Please take note that this is NOT the only list from which I get spammed by Datapro, so your problems are deeper and wider than listwashing a single whiny anti-spam "activist" from a single ill-constructed mailing list or database. If your lists are NOT fully confirmed-opt-in (and clearly they are not,otherwise I wouldn't be bothering you), then they're spammy lists until you can verify, with a full audit trail, that each and every recipient has positively confirmed their wish to opt in. Any addresses that cannot be so confirmed must be removed from your databases. All databases. The procedure for confirming mailing-list opt-in has been well-established, well-understood, standard practise in legitimate email management for at least the last 30 years, and is correctly implemented by every respectable mailing-list management system. I would expect an ISP as large as Datapro to be conversant with such established, accepted, and widely-implemented industry-standard, and to have the resources to ensure compliance. I realise that these practices are somewhat more stringent than required by SA law, but will point out that the ISPA Code of Conduct (para 28) mandates that "ISPA members must operate with due regard for established Internet best practices, as set out in the various request for comment (RFC) documents and as mandated from time to time by established and respected Internet governance structures." That reads: "established Internet best practices", not "ineffective South African law". I believe that mailing list operation is covered by RFC-3098 among other resources. Furthermore, you will, no doubt, have noted that the sample email sent to you is in violation of even the very modest requirements of the ECT Act. Not to mention the long-term on-going failure to heed good-faith removal instructions as required by the Act. I trust that Datapro's forthcoming response to this will measure up to the full scope of the organisation's evident ignorance of, or unwillingness to implement, Internet standards and best practise.
From: "Maggie Cubitt" <maggiec@voxtelecom.co.za>
To: <me>
Cc: "Douglas Reed" <douglasr@datapro.co.za>
Hi Mike As a listed Telecommunications Company we do take any reports of this
nature extremely seriously. We were very concerned to receive the
notification of your complaint to ISPA, and are obviously anxious to get
this resolved as a matter of urgency.
As there are many companies in the Vox Telecom Group and as DataPro, as
an ISP, does provide a bulk mailing service to customers as well, there
is a possibility that you are on one of our customer's databases.
In order to investigate this properly I would really appreciate if you
could forward me the "February newletter" to which you refer so that I
can investigate this thoroughly for you.
I look forward to your response.
Regards,
Maggie